Apple TV, iOS Tips, and Steam: Episode 42

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you’re listening to the Apple Insider [Music] podcast welcome to episode 39 of our show where we discuss the latest news about Apple iPhone iPad mac Apple watch Apple TV and more we’re recording on Thursday October 22nd 2015 with me is Neil Hughes our managing editor hi Neil hey guys how’s it going awesome and also joining us today is the esteemed Mikey Campbell hello how is it out there in Paradise Paradise I don’t know it’s amazing so what’s the temperature out there right now um right now it’s in the morning so probably like high 70s living the life in Hawaii yeah yeah our morning low was like 30 I’d rather be cold personally come for a visit sometime when you do I hope to have a new Apple TV which is shipping next week so you know the the uh Tim Cook said this right it’s it’s uncharacteristic for Cook to tell us when something’s happening but he said that that the Apple TV is launching next week isn’t that right Neil I mean I think we’ve gotten to a point now when if Apple says that a product is launching in a month like a window of a month that it’s going to be like the very last day of the month right it seems like they’ve done this remember when the Mac Pro was coming out they announced it a WWDC and they’re like shipping later this year and then uh that fall they were like shipping before the end of you know 2013 or whatever it was and then it ended up shipping like December 30th or something and it was like I don’t know that anybody actually got their hands on one in that year but it did technically ship so there you go but yeah when they announced it uh in September they said that the new Apple TV would ship in October which uh for people that have been eagerly awaiting this product including myself we’re hoping that that was a little earlier in October but uh they’re going to start accepting orders next Monday which would be the 26th so presumably people start getting them 28th 29th um and then we can start enjoying apps on our TV now this one’s a little harder of a buying decision than the previous two generations right the previous two generations the Apple TV 2 the Apple TV 3 you went into the store you plunk down your $99 and eventually your $69 and you bought one here I got to ask you and and maybe people don’t really know this but there are two storage sizes being offered and price points are 149 and 199 so they’re they’re telling us the difference of storage size but it’s been like 9 years since Apple TV stored anything on the device with the first generation and they don’t really tell us what they’re using the storage for so how are you going to decide which one to buy Neil I will get the larger one I’m a heavy user so I tend to I mean I have 128 gig phone so I’m I’m sure that I will fill it up somehow because that’s what I do but it’s interesting that they have the these two storage capacities of 32 gigabytes at 149 and 64 gigabyt at 199 uh because the apps in themselves are limited to an install size of I think 200 megabytes and then once you launch an app they can pull in other data and download it from the cloud or whatever and store it locally temporarily but you’re not going to fill it up with 64 gigs worth of apps unless you install a lot of apps you would need to install hundreds of them on there in order to fill the thing up but I’ve seen some speculation too that um the storage might be a little more future proof for a uh Apple TV streaming service which they’re expected to launch in 2016 so you might uh be able to for example like use it as a DVR maybe record some content or save it to the cloud or something like that you know those kind of concepts are out there and then there’s also the the likelihood that in the future Apple will lift those restrictions on apps and you’ll be able to in install even larger apps on your Apple TV and then that would use more space yeah I mean I I wasn’t really sure if it was going to be webc or applications or application data one of the things that I think back to and this is going back many years is I had an early Voodoo system before Walmart bought the voodo streaming service and the device would predictively download the kinds of movies that it thought that I liked to watch it would get a couple of gigabytes saved up of the movies just slowly over time so that when I started that’s that’s what too did too where it would go oh you like this so maybe you like this and I’ll record a bunch of junk well right but Netflix does this too with suggestions for you yeah except it doesn’t download it would would go ahead and in the background have some so that when you said you wanted to watch something it started instantly and you like that well it was kind of cool and the other thing that they did was they did you know how um some filesharing services like bitor for example when you’re pulling bits down you’re also sharing them and uploading them back to everyone else so they would do that too where instead of being a central server that had all the bandwidth they would have you also sharing bits of pieces of it back up to everyone else so that it was a almost a mesh of of everyone having that pre-loaded pre-buffering able to start it immediately instead of the today’s current Apple TV experience where you press play and you wait a few minutes that’s pretty quick for me and I still have the Gen 2 model yeah but you you still see it buffering right yeah starts almost instantly for me I haven’t really had many issues with it you guys you guys have problems with it I don’t right so I’ve got I’ve got 50 meg down Time Warner service and I see it buffer how long uh you know it it I press play and it says your movie will be ready in about a minute oh well yeah I don’t know I’m not really watching iTunes movies on there I mostly am using my uh Apple TV for HB now and uh whatever the equivalent is for Showtime uh the streaming services okay so I I see this primarily with iTunes movies and I rent them periodically you know I I also use Netflix I also use Hulu I don’t have the HBO or Showtime subscriptions anymore I I ran out the trials but uh I I periodically you know once or twice a month maybe I’ll rent a movie and that’s where I see that but as you say if they’re doing a streaming service then they could use it to [Music] pre-buffering for me I guess you know if it’s TV shows they can prefetch can’t they yeah I think it would be better for like a DVR type service you know if Apple’s I mean in theory they wouldn’t even need to to save it locally on your system right if Apple’s streaming all this stuff and they’re streaming live TV uh they would have recordings of everything on their servers and they could just serve it up to you right yeah Theory I mean there’s all kinds of patents for cloud-based DVR systems that even Apple owns right Mikey you’ve covered a few of them yeah yeah I mean I don’t know it’s uh it’s going to be interesting to see what they do in the future so so Mikey we asked Neil Neil is going big he’s going to get whatever the maximum is which is 64 gig today what are you getting I’m probably going to get 64 as well just because I don’t buy an Apple TV every generation I think I’m running the second generation as well just like new I skipped the third so just for future proing purposes I’ll probably get 64 and it’s worth noting that we did get um C BS all access and NBC apps for Apple TV second and third gen this week those are the ones that are signed up for a potential Apple streaming service aren’t they well no ABC would be the first one signed up because uh ABC is owned by Disney of which Loren Powell jobs is the largest single shareholder uh and they have a very close relationship for a number of reasons uh but I think the assumption is that ABC is first on board with any stream service and CVS has said that it’s probably an inevitability that they’ll sign up but I think CVS is the most clout because they’re the they have the highest ratings on broadcast but by getting CBS and their Subscription Service which is I think $6 a month and NBC and their streaming service which is free if you have cable uh now Apple has the quote unquote big four networks all available on Apple TV uh so you get Fox ABC NBC and CBS cool but it’s not none of it’s live TV It’s On Demand stuff yeah well I’m currently using Hulu and when I run Hulu under the no ads no commercials uh subscription they run commercials at the beginning and end of the show which is frustrating for a no commercials plan and I should uh I should correct myself by the way because someone’s going to complain the CBS all access does have some live streaming in select markets if you pay them $6 a month for something you can get for free over the air with rabbit ears but also shipping besides the Apple TV is the iPad Pro so I have to ask are you guys going to get an iPad Pro or are you going to get the apple pencil I am getting an iPad Pro I don’t think I’m gonna get the pencil that’s what it’s all about I don’t draw so and my handwriting is garbage you all that it’s magic um I’m not sure yet maybe I I really like it but I don’t really uh I don’t know if it it it’s going to be useful for me I’m not an artist not a graphic designer so um I mean it’ be awesome to have a bigger screen and just lounge around and browse the web and stuff but that’s kind of a big investment for that kind of uh that kind of use I think yeah so so how do you think you guys are going to use the iPad Pro I mean I know Neil you’re really hot on the SMART connector is this like a laptop replacement kind of thing for you or what what’s what are you thinking how do you use this I mean it’s not going to replace my MacBook Pro let’s be real um as much as I would love for it to replace my MacBook Pro we’re just not there yet uh it’s going to take a few years but um I really like my iPad uh for a lot of different reasons um and I find myself using it in very different situations all the time uh sometimes as a laptop replacement sometimes just to read sometimes to stream TV or something like that uh like uh this past weekend I was upstate New York and I was watching the uh Gator football game on TV and I have an NHL G uh game center subscription and I wanted to watch a hockey game on there as well and so I had my TV and I had my iPad and I was doing both at once and then the next thing I knew I was using it to look something up and I was you know it’s it’s just such a versatile device that having that bigger screen and having that additional connectivity with the SMART connector is I think just going to make it grow in my life and be something that I’m using in in new and different ways thank you for that advertisement yo I really our show has been sponsored by Neil and the iPad Pro I’m I’m excited for the SMART connector accessories I I want to see what people do I want to see stuff Beyond keyboards I want to see desktop style docs I want to see mobile keyboards I want to see everything that people do with it uh unfortunately it’s going to take a few years you know accessory makers kind of there has to be a market for it and they got a R&D and all that kind of stuff but I predict two three years down the road uh the SMART connector is going to to be the main uh selling point of an iPad that’s bold that is a really bold prediction I I think the lightning connector does more than the SMART connector does well the lightning connector does more than the SMART connector does because it’s been around for three or four years now and we have all more connectivity has a lot more bandwidth on it right well we don’t really know the technical specifications of it really and honestly they could improve it next year or do something but you know the future on this stuff is it easy to connect this is the entire purpose of the iPad is seamless easy access friendly Computing and if I can just snap my iPad onto some accessory or uh snap some accessory onto my iPad uh depending on the scenario uh I think that’s a huge selling point and I think they can build an entire Market of new ecosystem around that connector alone and and eventually a Next Generation SMART connector could replace the lightning Port entirely uh if you could use it to charge uh again bold I I can’t see them doing anything to to age out lightning soon no I mean they they’re they doubled down on Lightning recently but you got to look five uses lightning right but you got to look five 10 years in the future that’s where it’s headed I mean we already have induction charging on our Apple watch this stuff is inevitable it’s just a matter of time until we get there yeah I’ll give I actually had uh I I had a interesting thought this week and I may be the only person that cares about this but I’ll share it anyhow because hey uh I am excited for the leash accessory for the Apple TV which plugs into the lightning Port which allows you to use the controller like a Wii remote so you don’t throw it at your flat screen and break it I’m excited for that accessory because I want to use it with my iPhone and use it as a little wrist uh thing for my iPhone when I go around and I shoot photos you’re a Japanese girl no so a few months ago Mike you know what I’m talking about right the little things that that you attach to to the handle to he is a Japanese girl yes I know exactly what you’re talking about uh a few months ago for a gift for my wife I bought a really cool accessory from uh uh photo JoJo uh which is a cool website with a bunch of you know photographers accessories and stuff and she’s always when she’s shooting is afraid of dropping her phone or something like that and and so I got her an accessory where it undid the screws to the left and right of the lightning port on the bottom of your phone and then you put a little uh leash holder on there and then put and then turn the screws back in and you have like a permanently connected leash holder back there unfortunately it prevented using the iPhone with a dock or anything like that because it added some thickness to the bottom so I ended up returning the product but that’s something that I actually can see myself using it for bringing my phone kind of on the go and uh using it as a camera not having to worry about you know dropping it and breaking it without a case especially if I’m using like um one of those uh allo clip adapters where you can’t use it with a case uh that’s one of those situations where I want to carry my phone around but I want to feel secure that I’m not going to drop it because this big stupid phone yeah well allo clip is making cases now that work with their camera yeah but who wants to use that stuff come on Well everybody’s got their own case and if I have to take the case off for a reason which I do a lot uh I think that the leash connector if it works uh for the Apple TV will be something cool with the iPhone and I am the only person who cares about that so there you go cly you weren’t the only person cuz that was the uh the thing about the old iPod Touch was that it had the little popup Circle and you could put the leash on it well then why aren’t they marketing this for the iPhone I’m wondering if maybe there’s some sort of physical they took off the iPod Touch man you you and that product designer were the only two guys I know I wonder if it it’ll I mean the remote is obviously light and the tension on lightning is is pretty it’s it’s pretty uh there’s decent hold up to some Force yeah well it’s got the two springs on the side yeah I don’t know if it’ll uh it’ll hold the uh iPhone if you drop it it’s pretty beefy yeah no I I the weight is what I’m wondering too I’m wondering maybe this won’t work at all I have no idea uh until I get my hands on one but that is where I see myself using I’m not going to be tossing my remote around in my house and I don’t really care that much about the remote but uh my phone if I’m using it without a case for something like shooting photos I can see that being pretty cool so there you go cool we got a lot of software updates this week so first of all have you guys updated all of your devices yet yes I haven’t updated my watch yet okay so so your watch is still on watch os2 right yeah yeah but you updated your max to OS 10 10.1.1 yeah yep okay and you updated all your your iOS devices to 9.1 yeah I’ve been on the betas too so Mikey were you on the betas or did you just move from 902 to 9.1 uh for the Point update I don’t usually run the betas um so I I just moved from the uh 9.2 or 9 9.02 straight to 9.1 yeah and and how is that for you have you noticed any great improvements no well besides uh my ability to send my friends uh middle finger emoji constantly throughout the day in a variety of uh ethnicities is uh great it’s great for me you’re not a fan of the taco Emoji well I mean I don’t I don’t send my friends a taco Emoji wow I save that for other things that’s for special occasions I understand um there’s also an interesting Emoji that’s in there that’s the uh the eyeball in the speech bubble did you see that one yeah uh yeah we we we got a tip uh when it when they first discovered or someone first saw it and said what what is this um no one really knew what it was but when it first came out we got a tip that said it was a an for the anti-bullying campaign but it was um unconfirmed but I believe this confirmed now right Neil yes yeah so stop bullying guys there’s also uh a unicorn Emoji a burrito uh they added a ice hockey one uh um yeah who cares so what is the big update within watch OS 2011 just some bug fixes really these updates are about supporting the new Emoji some bug fixes and that’s about it there was a bug on watchos 2 where like apps wouldn’t really install properly or it wasn’t remembering your settings and things would go a little wonky when you updated apps on your phone it would push the install to your watch even if it wasn’t installed there so I think they fixed that yeah yeah I’ve been having issues installing apps on my watch since the beginning so do you even use third party apps on your watch um I use a couple other than the Apple Insider Apple Watch app of course uh yes all the time I like to read my own writings on my watch after the smallest screen possible uh yeah no when I I’d have to sometimes um uninstall inst it or it would say it’s installed but it obviously wasn’t installed so I’d have to uninstall it on my phone which would sometimes install the entire process and if it didn’t install then I have to install it again and I don’t know it it was a mess oh and when I uh updated from watch os1 all my icons got or my I icon Arrangement got messed up I got shifted up like one slot or something you know you can uh rear arange on your phone right it’s easier than do yeah I know but no it was weird because on my phone it was the same arrange because it um it brought back the backup on my phone but on my watch it was displaying it differently than it had on uh the the layout on my phone so I had to I had to switch it around on my watch which is a pain so we we know that pretty much everyone out there is running largely iOS 9 and some still back on iOS 8 I’m I’m actually one of those my phone is on 841 what should you guys tell me and are listeners like me about upgrading Victor I don’t know anybody like you so that warms the sub cockles of my heart Neil but but you know is there any reason is there any reason that that we should be holding back at this point you’ve found a million reasons because nothing works properly for you but it works fine just update yeah I mean the features are great uh come on over you know is is there anything for for people with older devices like a 4S or a five that you’d say hold back or is it pretty much everyone should go ahead and update at this point I mean I haven’t tried running this stuff on a 4S and we get emails all the time from people saying that it runs like crap when they update and all the conspiracy theories of Apple is purposefully hampering the performance of previous generation devices to encourage people to upgrade I mean when I upgraded to my 6s it feels a lot faster than my so uh sure you know if you’re if you’re the type of person who’s concerned about that stuff go ahead but you know you can turn off certain features too like turn off Hy Siri and I’ve heard that improves performance for some people and stuff so if you’re still rocking a 4S um yeah you know I’d say you can try disabling some of the features and see if that helps but generally the new features are helpful enough that you want them I think people will deal with a performance hit to get the new features right well I’m going to consider whether or not I update my phone and I’ll let you know get back with this in six months the the the shame of it is that’s probably realistic at this point this is a drawn out process for you man it’s well the problem is that Apple stops signing the old version so it’s harder to roll back so I have one in my hand that is rolled back and I won’t be able to undo it if uh if I go forward it’s working brilliantly right now if I go for it and it’s garbage then what have I got nothing the world’s smallest violin is playing for you Victor I’m aware of that at the same time this is my sole communication device I don’t have other ones you know my my alternative is to put a SIM card in a Windows phone and we know that’s not going to go over well so there you go tell me about run keeper Neil you run a lot now I I know there’s a run keeper app for watch OS have you have you used that at all or are you looking forward using it I’ve used the 1.0 RunKeeper watch app for about five minutes and then gave up on it I uh for years have been an avid RunKeeper user and then the Apple watch came out and it was like oh I can transfer all of my or all the music I want to listen to on the watch and I can run with the watch and I can leave my stupid big phone at home so I’ll do that uh but in watch OS one you could not have native apps on there so things like run keeper didn’t work so if I wanted to run with my phone and use run keeper it was kind of a mess anyhow cuz it would like start it on the phone from the watch but you like had to unlock it on the phone and it seemed like it was laggy and then because of the way that the OS Works going back to the clock face after inactivity if I rais my wrist up I wouldn’t see the thing so I’d have to change it to work differently and and then I have to change it back it was a nightmare I I didn’t I didn’t like it at all yes so today uh RunKeeper is finally updated for watch OS 2 which means it’s a native app on there which means that you’re going to be able to run and uh track your runs and have it estimate uh with the built-in pedometer and all that and track your heart rate uh and input all that data into the uh health kit and it also shares it with the activities app on the watch so it counts towards your ring goals and all that kind of stuff so I’m very excited for this I haven’t used it yet because the update just came out at 11 o’cl today but I’m going to run with it uh hopefully today or this weekend and give it a shot and see how it goes and I can report back to you guys and let you know but very excited to uh start using it and because I I have a ton of tracked runs for years on RunKeeper and I haven’t been using it because I like to run with just my watch and I like using the activities app from Apple even though it’s not perfect so now uh I kind of get the best of both worlds the only thing I’m concerned about and I don’t think that they can address this is the returning to the watch face after an activity um you have to change the settings on the watch to uh when you raise your wrist to show the last app versus showing the clock face so that may be an issue that I contend with but we’ll report back and let you guys know excellent now what we were talking about phone performance a few minutes ago when I was talking about my travails and trying to update my phone or not and one of the things that people commonly recommend is that I should go ahead and double press the home button and swipe up to dismiss apps to quit them and you published a tip didn’t you Neil ah didn’t you it was a really popular tip I mean it had a ton of comments it had a lot of feedback it got like 4,000 shares on Facebook and uh that’s amazing they loved it they loved it didn’t they uh I don’t know where to start on this so I’ll just I’ll be as first of all tell us what the tip is the the point is I’m I’m swiping up to dismiss these apps quit them or force quit them whatever the right term is yeah you know when I write a tip like this I try to make it as simple as possible without going into all the technical Wizardry of it because these kind of articles are very popular with readers and they also tend to appeal to a broad audience of people who don’t care how it works they just want to know what they should do and so our tips tend to be geared toward those types of readers of which we have many and uh we also have a lot of technical readers who know the inner workings of iOS and their phone and all that kind of stuff and they have opinions as well so I wrote a piece basically just telling people uh if you are constantly double tapping uh double pressing I should say the home button and accessing the quick app switcher and swiping up on apps to close them all out regardless of whether they’re running in the background or doing anything or crashed or whatever uh that is a bad habit and you should stop doing that because it’s pointless it’s absolutely pointless well so wait it’s not a bad habit it’s just an unne necessary habit right there’s nothing bad about this it’s just a waste of time it could be a bad habit you could be force closing apps that you don’t want to force close uh you’re losing uh uh if they’re saved in some sort of a stasis then you lose that uh iOS does some you know management stuff behind the scenes there are reasons to just not touch it but there are reasons to to close it even if it’s not right in the background too there’s a lot of people who commented who uh like to access their most frequently used apps from there so they close out ones that are less frequently used and it’s an easy way for them to re access those apps without going back to the home screen and that’s a perfectly justifiable explanation the purpose of the tip was not to tell people to never swipe up on apps ever and close them clearly apps will crash clearly uh sometimes they just get stuck and you got to do something uh clearly sometimes you know uh something is used in your location in the background and you don’t want it and you’re trying to fix that stuff there are a multitude of reasons to swipe up on apps but if you are in the habit of just swiping up on everything to close out apps to force close all of them and to uh and you think it’s going to save battery life and you think it’s going to save um uh uh uh it’s going to make your phone run faster you’re wrong you’re just wrong and there’s a lot of people who completely disagree with that and from their own personal experiences they you know it’s like it’s like people get an oil change and feel like their car drives faster you know just because you’re conscious of it you’re you’re projecting in some way um it just doesn’t work that way and there are some people in the comments who even thought that when they restart their phone that everything that they were running before is still running and you know it’s just a lack of understanding how OS works and software and all that um so I love our readers uh even the ones that are know-it-alls and uh I thank them very much for their input the ones that were rude like the dude who emailed me and called me an idiot and told me I should go to school uh and people in the comments who uh the one who said you’re 12 years old yeah you know there’s some more inflammatory stuff which I mean thankfully I’ve been doing this for a while uh and I have thick skin um so I’m not really that worried about it you’re an idiot go back to school and learn about the Apple operating system all apps must be closed for the phone to function properly and good battery life bonee head have a wonderful day that was good yeah please consider removing your article from the aforementioned site your basis of proof is incorrect when you shut down an application OS included you can dump an application state to storage from there you can reinitialize it when the OS has completed the reboot you have a lot of fans yeah yeah hey there was one guy on on Twitter yesterday though who said that he loves my rants on the podcast so at least I have one fan out there that’s good yeah I mean listen a lot of people are very passionate about this and they’re going to keep swiping up on their apps because they’re convinced that this works and let’s be real this is partially a design FL law by Apple that has been in the OS for a long time because it doesn’t make it clear what’s running in the background now one of the most common comments that was on that article which is correct but misses the point are people saying that apps like ways and Google Maps and Apple Maps will run in the background and use a lot of battery well yes they’re using your location and you know how you know that they’re using your location because there’s an arrow icon in the upper right hand corner of your screen at any moment that any app on your phone is using your location there are a couple kinds of classes I I want to say there are a couple of kinds of classes that can run in the background so so you can have a a a mapping application a location based application like you said ways Maps whatever and that does have the indicator but the other class of application that stays open in the background is the the voice over IP or the telepan kind of application like Skype any audio can be in the background too y right and audio and audio recording now audio recording you get indication because there’ll be a bar up at the status bar showing red that an application recording but and when you’re connected to carplay you’ll get a blue bar at the top things like that but the uh The Voice applications like Skype do not give you any good indication no they give you a red bar at the top for Skype if you close Skype and it’s in the background and it’s in a live call it’s using the mic there’s a in a live call but when it’s not in a live call but in the background waiting to receive a live call it’s just sitting there I I think that uses a push notification server though it doesn’t run the full app in the background so you would get I mean you you you wouldn’t you could restart your phone and you still get you don’t have to launch Skype to get a notification now there are some apps that purposefully run in the background and there’s a lot of like power user stuff that yes again I’m not saying there’s not a reason to swipe up on en force close apps that’s not the point the point is I see people all the time I see it at The Genius Bar at the Apple Store Apple did not do a very good job of creating uh a distinction between what’s running and what’s not and people think that every and I’ve heard this from countless people that every single app card that you see when you double press the home button is an app that is currently running in the background they think that all of them are running in the backround ground and that is not what it is it is a quick app switcher period that’s what it is now if you swipe up it also is a way to force close an app but you’re not always force closing apps when you’re swiping up because some of them aren’t even running most of them aren’t so you could go back and I mean you could restart your phone a thousand times double press the home button and you’ll be able to scroll back and see apps you opened six months ago it’s just the order of apps that you’ve used recently that’s all it is okay I get it you don’t have to beat me up over this anymore well but you know people were so upset about this and it’s like you missed the point in the article I said turn off background app refresh if you want to save battery life lower your screen brightness do things that are actually going to prevent things from running in the background because background app refresh will drain your battery if you have Facebook and you launch it all the time iOS will try to save you some loading time and load it automatically in the background to give you the latest data so when you load up Facebook you get to see the latest hilarious meme that somebody shared or something so yeah turn that crap off and you’ll help your battery life but just just arbitrarily force closing every app every time you use your phone is it’s it doesn’t make any sense and it doesn’t do anything it’s not saving your battery life it’s not helping you and it’s a bad habit to get into and most General users who are tip articles are meant for should not be doing it I want to talk a little bit about realy shares realy shares was very kind and sponsored the show this week you work hard for your money so you should get a solid return on your Investments without doing a lot of work you should check out realy shares at realy appleinsider realy shares is an online real estate Marketplace that lets you invest in private real estate Investments vetted by investment professionals you can invest as little as $1,000 in different transactions diversify your risk and participate in both short and long-term Investments to learn more and join thousands of other successful investors visit realy appleinsider Apple music right we’ talked about Apple music the past couple of times and apple music has well Mike you wrote this article it was about the number of subscribers that they’ve got go ahead and tell me about it um well Tim Cook said at the uh Wall Street Journal uh wsjd live uh conference uh he let slip a couple numbers on Apple music and uh basically there’s a little over 15 million subs or users now uh 6.5 million of which are paying subscribers so um I guess we now have some heart evidence as to how well their fora into streaming music is going I believe that uh someone did the calculations and uh about half of the original uh users who first signed up did not reup for the pay service um which uh that sounds about right to me so did you up for the paid service yes I did cool and and Neil did you subscribe uh no no no I prefer to own my music I don’t even use apple music I what I do is um I use Spotify on my Mac to sample an album and see if I like it so I’ll listen to it with ads for the free Spotify service and then if I like it I’ll buy it on iTunes or Amazon or something and if I really like it then buy it on vinyl and uh I usually try to buy only vinyl that comes with a digital download code so sometimes that’s an insert in the packaging and sometimes if you buy from Amazon that comes with their Auto rip service and then I subscribe to iTunes match so anything that I buy that’s not on iTunes is uh stored in the cloud you aren’t seriously moving around with a ton of vinyl are you no you you are the ultimate in in minimization you like you fit your whole life into two SU suitcases because you travel to different apartments all the time I I I like uh owning physical things um and I have no use for CDs obviously and I prefer having MP3s uh so I I just I like buying vinyl and having it I like the big album art and the experience of putting on the record player and stuff and I I like music so I guess it’s kind of romanticized for me but no I I don’t travel with my vinyl that would be funny I I I was mental block trying to to reconcile these two ideas of you being the ultra minimalist and yet carting around huge stacks of vinyl well I mean I’m minimalist when I travel but when I’m home I like to have my things vinyl’s had a Resurgence in recent years and you can buy any new albums on vinyl they all come out on vinyl now and most of them come with digital download codes and that’s an area where I wish Apple would kind of embrace it and do like uh uh the the uh iTunes digital copies that they do with Blu-rays uh that would be nice if they did a iTunes digital copy for uh physical music that you purchase Steve Jobs like to listen to vinyl it’s not that farfetched of a concept so well which I don’t think it’ll ever happen but right which era did he listen to vinyl in his later years or did he listen to vinyl when we saw him doing the uh the old pictures in the apartment kind of thing I think I read interview maybe it was in Walter ison’s book where he talked about how he had a fondness for vinyl but maybe I’m making that up I don’t know but it’ll never happen it’s one of those things that that only I care about which seems be a lot of things these days so uh I I I think that Apple music is off to a pretty good start uh Spotify has about 20 million subscribers Apple music has about a third of that after three months on the market spotify’s been around for years is on many more devices than Apple music currently is uh and has promotion and branding behind it that Apple hasn’t quite yet achieved so uh I would say uh good on Apple nice job good launch yeah that that’s a I mean this was never going to move the needle right you got 6.5 million people paying 10 bucks a month come on for a company that that’s gonna sell what 75 million iPhones next quarter it’s not even a drop in the bucket this is not yeah this is just this is something that they do to build out the ecosystem it’s something the company’s passionate about they’ve always been involved in music and it allows them to stay relevant in that market uh there’s a group of consumers that would rather rent their music and pay a monthly fee for and have unlimited access then buy it and for those people it’s a it’s a good product so good for them now Apple made some recent hires right you wrote a story about Apple hiring Key Personnel from an electric motorcycle startup and it’s it’s my understanding that I read this right that they hired enough people that it basically shuttered the startup what happened here I mean there were only like 35 people working there so how many people did you need to hire to shut them down right this was a this was kind of a silly story people who used to work at this Motorcycle company said that Apple’s poaching was the reason that they went out of business SP SPS you know uh Mikey you were telling me that you actually had followed this company you’re proba you were pretty interested in their product right yeah I was waiting for them to release the uh the M1 are you uh do you ride motorcycles yeah and but I mean they’ve been struggling from the beginning so it’s a chopper baby uh yeah do do you ride motorcycles yeah okay he’s a badass I guess uh I don’t I don’t crash them like Dan though so here here is geez here is uh uh the truth of why this story is interesting that uh the angle that we covered it from that uh you didn’t read anywhere else apple is hiring for their electric car project project Titan and we have a source who told us about a month ago uh that Apple’s hiring has been so aggressive that it’s been pushing back Tesla’s projects so this is something that’s affecting companies on a big scale now this is a small example of it with a company that really nobody had heard of before a couple days ago but uh the truth of it is Apple is hiring on in a big way and it is affecting uh companies in a big way and our source told us that uh it’s affecting Tesla in a big way um just in terms of the aggressive recruitment that’s going on so I think that’s the the most interesting angle here yeah I’m not sure if you heard but uh elen musk said that that is incorrect I hear that we we talked about that last week but uh you know this isn’t the first when when I saw this story the first thing that I thought of was was Atlas wearables which Mikey wrote a story about last year and and you know their Atlas wearables is a a of course wearable device meant for fitness and apple poached one of their lead software engineers back at a time before the Apple watch was released so you know they they they do go seek out the best people at the most interesting new idea kind of companies and bring them on board to bolster their own products yeah boohoo who cares some small company some small company that’s teetering on the brink isn’t going to stay in business maybe their business model is to hope to get acquired some big company comes along with paychecks and offers it to the employees employees say hm I could stay here and we could go under and I’m screwed or I can take a job at the largest company on the planet what do you think they’re going to do I mean that’s capitalism stick around for years for my options to vest or get paid I like small companies I like startups I like new ideas but capitalism’s capitalism and if Apple’s coming in and they’re offering jobs and people want to take him that’s just the way it’s going to go so too bad for Atlas too bad for this Motorcycle Company who cares well Atlas has managed to stay in business they still say they’re going and they still say they’re launching so good for them but uh yeah that’s great then adapt adapted involved that’s the way it goes yeah I want my electric motorcycle Neil yeah Neil give him an electric motorcycle all right so talking about capitalism talking about business soft layer delivers a cloud build for transparency your business your applications your computational workloads are unique so you deserve Cloud resources that meet your specific needs and soft layer is one of the only Cloud providers that Provisions dedicated servers and virtual servers from a single seamless platform on demand all connected to the same open API to a global private Network all of our listeners have the opportunity to get $500 of cloud infrastructure by visiting podcast with a capital P you can order bare metal servers virtual servers storage networking and security services from your choice of data center from across 24 data centers around the world visit podc with a capital P to get started with your $500 off servers storage Network and security on a cloud built for transparency from soft layer now also speaking about business right more Chinese applications violated Apple’s rules and have been pulled from the App Store now the Roger wrote this story for us on the site this week and that the first thing I I worry about as a reader When I See This is is this something that I should be concerned about what what does these even mean Neil I the Apple has specific rules for what apps can and cannot do do um and this is very different by the way from the previous Chinese exploit which is where apps were made with malicious code and were going much further than this right this is third party app apis illegally collected data from hundreds of App Store titles so so what kind of data were they collecting do we know it was an advertising uh SDK that they were using it was 256 apps that would were found by this group Source DNA they were downloaded about a million times uh they was collecting serial numbers email addresses and Gathering lists of installed apps all of which are in violation of Apple’s uh developer policy so developer broke the rules uh and apple pull the apps and presumably they’ll get 40 Lashes right and so Apple’s probably going to keep looking out for this kind of thing and clamping down on it but presumably the the the worst damage if there was any damage at all to a was that your email address was collected your serial number of device was collected and the list of applications you have installed was collected yeah so just it’s tracking stuff for advertising it’s tracking but it’s not as sensitive as as other information could have been and presumably you had to insert your email address into the app and stuff too since that stuff wouldn’t be accessible you know so this is not as serious of a deal as the malware uh China issue from last month yeah I I I agree it’s a it’s a separate kind of problem and much less sensitive but you know how many applications ask you to put your email address in so many right you get open application the first thing they do is either connect with Facebook or give us your email right tons of them just huge amounts and and so I can see why that’s a concern but um but I I don’t feel too bad about this one I don’t feel at e you know ill at ease about this no and this only if effect apps in China too so for those of you listening that don’t live in China you’re okay oh that’s a relief thank you now we had some video on our site this week and I love these videos when we fly drones out there it’s great so we had videos showing that the Apple campus has has the new construction has reached the top floor now Dan wrote that for us um what’s what’s you know it look to me when I’m looking at this as if there’s there’s parts that are incomplete where the sections of the Ring join but it looks like it’s reached the total height um that’s pretty quick isn’t it I believe it’s six months um I mean the the in the innards have not been filled out so it’s basically a steel skeleton right now um but I yeah I mean it’s pretty it’s pretty quick by us standards um and they’ve been kind of putting uh prodding the the developers from what we hear uh to get the job done since it’s already running grossly over budget uh they want to uh finish part of it by 2016 so they can at least start moving employees in um so I think they’re they’re on track to do so it looks like they’re going to build out the dining hall and some main offices first so you got to think that they want to get in there ASAP because they’re running out of space well I mean they just keep buying other places yeah they they have too many employees already for campus 2 they’re buying a lot around San Jose and and with all the projects they have going on and new hires and all that kind of stuff they’re just growing yeah so much money well you know when they first planned this thing it was probably 2010 they first pitched it to the uh the the City Council of cerino in 2011 right yeah it it’s it’s entirely possible that they’ve totally outgrown their whole expectations when they planned it their their projections uh and they have had some delays right there was that delay where they were having issues with the workers and and one supplier of Labor one and and so it’s it’s really both good that they’ve come this far but at the same time I you know I’m wondering if if they’re they’ve already outstripped all the space they’re building building probably that’s probably why they’re buying all this place up in San Jose yeah I it wasn’t it wasn’t meant to you house Surplus workers like that even when they first started there were much more staff on hand in copertino and surrounding areas than would fit in campus too so I don’t think their plan was to move everybody into one area it would be just far too many people you think you think the goal was to just reorganize around groups that have to work together to put them closer in proximity yeah I mean that’s what the whole building is about right it’s a big circle it’s donut and uh it it’s it was designed to facilitate uh co-mingling of certain departments and you know the way you have to walk through the building it would uh urge people to talk to each other there make you know impromptu meetings and conversations facilitate ideas and stuff like that so um it’s more of a design concept than something like uh regular big old Square office building because if there’s one thing Apple’s known for it’s sharing of information and ideas around right yes well I’m sure there will be clear delineations between Apartments but uh yeah yeah they they have had some departments that are pretty much locked off from everyone else but yeah I wonder where the secret stuff’s going to be I imagine the secret stuff well I mean they could move it but uh you know currently it’s it’s in on the infinite Loop campus you don’t think Johnny I wants to get some new digs well they well um the opportunity to have new digs that are designed is probably a good Allure yeah well it’s not all on the infinite Loop campus uh the the design team stuff well I mean the yeah yeah I’m talking about the I’m talking about the like the design Skunk Works John Johnny I stuff that’s infinite Loop isn’t it right yeah that is but I’m saying like currently the uh project Titan Apple car stuff is not on the campus yeah that’s spread all over true and it’s also not sort of I mean it’s it’s not really enough officially known kind of thing right they haven’t announced anything about it so it’s not no but I mean anyway there’s so many people working on this that it’s beyond just the pie in the sky phase so this week’s episode has been brought to you by igloo and Igloo software is is making an Internet that can be customized look amazing have responsive design and be optimized for all the devices you’re using share files coordinate calendars provide status updates and manage projects so it’s it’s not just the traditional stuff that you you find an interets for company like corporate HR policies and expense forms it’s it’s about working better together with your teams and so what they’re doing is they’re making it available to our listeners with a free trial at egloos inssider and honestly if you’ve ever used one this sounds so much better than any of the ones that I ever had to use back in the day the idea of of working on the iPhone and being respons responsive and being about collaboration and not just these are the policies being handed down sounds incredible so I I like the idea of it and I thank them for sponsoring us Neil you published a first look on the uh the inboard M1 skateboard and I mean I I hit the button to publish it you pressed you wrote the thing I I actually saw you’re the one who wrote on it uh for some definitions of road I uh I I got a chance to ride the inboard M1 skateboard and first of all some of the things that struck me as being cool about it were the ability to replace the batteries in it it uses a a lithium battery that goes in the top of the deck there’s no battery bulge on the bottom and and some of these ones that I’ve seen have had Motors that have been mounted underneath the deck that drive the wheels with belts or or whatever this the motors are built into the rear wheels which seems really cool because they’re direct drive so there’s no motor slop it’s it’s once you just trigger go it goes and I liked it you know I I am not an avid skateboarder I never have been but for me as a new user who’s not a good skateboarder the beauty of getting on this thing was that I was able to control my speed going forward but I was also to use able to use regenerative breaking and because I was able to do that to slow myself down I felt like I had really good control I was really confident about getting on it and I rode it around uh the the uh Pavilion at Fort Mason in San Francisco and felt really good about it you know I was driving it around all these people and all these Booth setup and things and and I didn’t worry about crashing into anyone I didn’t worry about tripping and falling off the board it was awesome now did you control it with the iPhone app or with the physical controller I controlled it with the physical controller because that was already paired to the board uh they showed me pairing the iPhone to the board and it was near instantaneous one of the things that I like about the iPhone controller is that you have to to to get into its control mode you have to put your thumb down and hold so that it enters this control mode and then you can’t get out of that unless you hit a smaller X in a specific place on the screen upper left corner something so you you can’t accidentally leave controller mode which is good and the other thing that I liked about is that if you touch anywhere on the screen that becomes the origin point for whether or not you’re swiping to go forward or reverse right yeah so you don’t have to look at the phone to control it anywhere on the screen is going to allow you to control it yeah I like that you can lock The Wheels On The Board too with your phone so uh nobody could use it if they steal it the the other thing that was cool for me was that they have several different modes they have a beginner mode an intermediate mode where you can control the acceleration and the maximum speed so you know for me starting out I can go ahead and pick a profile that’s got a much slower max speed and for you because you’re an experienced rider you can go ahead and let loose and I thought that was a really cool thing because it means that that you sort of grow as your abilities grow yeah this is a really cool looking product and I’m excited to get my hands on it we’ve been talking with inboard and uh the the M1 as it’s called is uh shipping next April to Consumers I think you can pre-order it now I think the main knock on this product is its price what is it $1,400 Victor 1300 something yes 1300 something yeah uh man that’s a lot of money for an electric skateboard but hey uh swappable battery Sleek design uh the motors and the wheels pretty cool uh I’m a fan I I reviewed the uh unique ego is what it’s called Uh y u NE C is how they spell it I reviewed that last year and I love the thing uh it’s cheaper but not as Sleek uh it’s $700 and uh you can ride like1 155 miles an hour on it and it goes over 10 miles on one charge you can control with your iPhone it doesn’t have the ability to uh lock the wheels uh but same idea you can tap anywhere on the screen and push your thumb up to accelerate and and down to break and uh ton of fun to ride it also comes with a physical remote that you can use as well um which would probably be preferable for most people but if you lose the remote or in a pinch you want to use your phone it’s so pretty neat feature to have so yeah these these connected devices they’re they’re they’re uh interesting they’re different ways of tapping into the Bluetooth on the phone and and uh using your phone in ways that you may not not have thought of and and that’s why I find these products to be interesting yeah and and this board yes it costs more but it has a bit more in capabilities range too right it’s 24 M hour max speed right it’s it’s also a 10 m range and in their app they give you a map with a radius showing you just how far you can go kind of thing yeah and and this one’s a little heavier too but it’s got a Sleek design and the ability to swap the battery is pretty cool yeah I’m I’m excited to try this one out I think it it looks like a really great product they’re ramping up for production now and if you live in a city and don’t own a car don’t want to get a car man these things are a great way to get around a lot of fun do you ride them on the sidewalk are you riding them on the pav uh so if I I have not ridden one in New York City yet but if I were to ride one here I would ride it on in the roads I mean the cars don’t go that fast and I would go down you know side roads and stuff I’m not going to yeah New York City just drops the speed limit to 25 mes hour didn’t they yeah and I mean people ride their bikes along here pretty easily and uh you know ride skateboards down the street I see it all the time just kind of going with traffic so uh you know ride safe wear a helmet put a case on your phone if you’re using it and uh yeah you know you don’t have to work you don’t have to work up a sweat uh kicking along and it’s easy you can attach to the back of a backpack and just kind of cruise around town fun way to get around uh really really really fun yeah I I think we’re thinking about the expense thing all wrong you know the and one of our commentors on the the forums said this where originally way back right the segue was the ideal people mover of the future the segue was going to be this thing that everyone would ride around the cities and those were were four five all the way up to $7,000 yeah right and and so clearly that didn’t catch on but here you have the motorized skateboard it’s a form factor people know it’s a form factor people accept and you’re talking about 1300 and we’re saying that’s much and yet people did buy Segways yeah prices on this kind of stuff are going to come down too I think you know for some people once something like this uh hits like you know years down the road a $500 price range it’s going to be kind of a no-brainer you can compare it to drones back when I first started testing out like the DJI stuff those things cost like $2,500 now you can get a DJI drone for like 700 bucks so uh the prices are inevitably going to come down as adoption goes up and uh uh manufacturing expertise and that kind of stuff so it’ll get there but like yeah like you said $1,300 when you compare it to something like a segue or if you’re using it in place of a car I mean let’s not let’s be real 10 miles is a long way to go for and that’s going to cover most people’s commutes during the day uh especially if you live in an area where you could ride a board so yeah I think for some people it’ll be cost- effective plus no gasoline or anything like that you just plug it into a wall but everyone uses hoverboards now oh God don’t even uh okay hoverboard are cool right but no no you’re wrong they’re they’re totally who was it was it was it Audi that did that who who did the Lexus had the magnetic one that required the the liquid nitrogen refueling all the time and it’s uh they they had to build an entire skate park well that’s because they had to embed the magnets in the ground for it to work and even then when you jump on it it would still uh oh yeah well those are I mean no talking about I’m talking I’m not talking about actual hoverboards oh Back to the Future day you’re talking about the single wheel that’s a a balancing Segway board yeah or or the single wheel but I think the two wheel ones are catching on because they’re cheap oh yeah the two whe ones are Chinese garbage you can get them for like a hundred bucks though and everybody’s got them they’re they’re hilarious the 100 Buck ones Flex when you stand on them there there are some that are 400 that have metal substructures and subframes and don’t flex but uh see a lot of those around in New York City and I also see the single wheel ones where uh it’s just a wheel with pegs on the side and you stand on it you got to learn to balance on it and there’s no seat you just stand on it have you seen that you sort of pinch it in your between your ankles and yeah I see him I see him around all the time yeah okay there there’s also a single one that’s a deck with a wheel in the middle like like a skateboard with one wheel in the middle yeah yeah I’ve seen that one as well um my my concern about these kinds of things is that you have cities that have inclines right you have a city that has you know San Francisco God help us it has inclines right you’re not going to get up the hill in these things no some of them do yeah maybe I mean I don’t know how strong they are don’t they go up to they go up to I I think the ones that I was looking at were were only able to climb a 15 degree incline which is not San Francisco San Francisco is way steeper than that yeah I mean it depends on where you live for some people this is going to be you know a no-brainer of a purchase uh yeah I I wish that uh when I tested the the board last year year um I tested it in Orlando but a few months before that I was living in St Petersburg Florida uh kind of in the downtown area and I wish that they had sent me the skateboard there because that would be a great town to ride around in on on the board uh Orlando not so much but uh uh yeah so it depends on the town you’re in really Orlando’s not really good for anything though right it’s good for losing money going to Disney just offended our Orlando listeners Mikey they don’t listen to podcasts there I I am technically an Orlando resident that’s what my ID says so I’m sorry I’ve earned the right to say that one of the things that that always comes up when we used to talk Mac versus PC and now we talk iOS and and especially the new Apple TV is is gaming and for gaming on the Mac you you really the one of the first places you look is steam right so valve shipped a controller and they shipped the ability to to send steam Gam to the TV and used the steamlink controller and Jason got that and took a first look at it um what what are the kinds of things he found when he did that Mikey um well he found that while decent as far as design goes it just doesn’t work right now with OSX uh OS 10 sorry um so I’m not I mean I’m not really one for the uh for the controllers I don’t use them with uh my Mac I I’m mostly a console kind of guy um but uh valve who is you know the parent company of steam um they confirmed that they will be bringing emulation to Max in the future okay but right now no no so so so my understanding is that they they realized they shipped a broken product they gave all of the people who bought it a $100 uh value complete pack to make up for the broken product and people can return the key the hardware or and and still keep the the the gift so that’s kind of nice of them but Neil you’re you’re also a console gamer right you you’re familiar with controllers and and so what do you guys think of the controller now I know Roger had the hands on or Jason had the hands on I’m sorry Jason had the hands on but you guys see this thing what does it look like to you compared to your Xbox or your PlayStation the controllers that you favor I mean it’s doing something different and I like that uh so it’s got a couple touchpads on there in addition to a traditional joystick um which are they’re they’re hoping to uh make it easier to play games like real-time strategy games which have just never really translated well to console style gameplay those are games that are meant to be played with a mouse and key keyboard um you know Mikey said that he’s more of a console gamer I’m more the same way and so the purpose of this product really the controller um and I guess to the same extent the uh uh the accessory that streams games to your TV um they these are meant for people who prefer console style games and it allows them to kind of bridge the gap between playing on your TV and playing on your PC or Mac Mac or whatever and so a lot of Gamers will connect a traditional controller um and play games on their PC that way I just buy it for an Xbox or something like that just because I don’t have time for the hassle of setting up a game configuring the settings uh you know TW tweaking it getting to run right and a lot of these games are ports too like I remember there was a fiasco a couple months ago with a new Batman game and they released it on PC and it just didn’t work to the point that Warner Brothers the publisher had to just pull the game um and make it so it wasn’t available for sale but most of those games that are made traditionally for consoles people just play them with a controller on their computer anyhow because it tends to control better that way so this is kind of just a way for valve to try to grow their market and bridge the gap between those console Gamers and PC Gamers who tend to be very different style of Gamers um and it’s supposed to work with Mac but it doesn’t out of the box so valve is going to give free games to Mac owners who bought a steam link and can’t use it yet uh and that’s cool I mean valve is a pretty good company and they’ve earned their reputation for being great so uh I don’t know how big of a market there is for this the controller looks interesting I haven’t tried it uh but I’m not in a huge rush to get it I guess yeah for me I just like watching where their strategy going you know they they’ve talked about the steam box which is a Linux powered steam console kind of thing with their own OS yeah with well it’s it’s a Linux based OS running their Steam on top of it and you know they they always gave out the recipe here’s the motherboard you buy here’s the syst system you buy here’s the graphics adapter you buy go and build your own steam box here’s the OS and they were going to market the steam box now they’re really com next month yeah out the steam box comes out next month too so the steam box is B made by a variety of Manufacturers the biggest one I guess is Dell Alienware um and it’s just a computer in a small box that you can put in front of your TV but it’s just traditional PC parts and the idea of the steam box is for somebody who maybe wants Xbox style gaming but they want to access to PC games just plug this thing into your TV it works just like an Xbox the Steam OS has what’s called Big Picture Mode which is a t TV friendly makes it easy to navigate um and kind of get around and launch your games with just a controller you don’t need a mouse and a keyboard the steam link offloads the processing to your Mac or your PC or your Linux computer so you could have a Mac Pro or a iMac or a MacBook Pro or whatever in the other room and then if you had it connected over the same router preferably over ethernet uh it would stream the processing power from your computer to just a little set toop box device on your TV and allow you to play the game on your TV that way and it’s a cheap $50 little box that you use with that and then the controller is another 50 but you can use it with other controllers too you can use it with the uh Xbox 360 Windows controller I believe as well cool yeah I I just think it’s it’s interesting for me because I’ve always seen this as sort of a a PC gaming versus console gaming and Mac gaming where Mac gaming has always been a lesser thing this is a very cool move for Steam and uh you know I’m I’m I’m always hopeful and optimistic about this kind of stuff yeah valve has done a pretty good job of supporting the Mac all their games that have not not that they release a lot of games these days unfortunately but uh since they debuted uh Steam on the Mac um valve has made uh Mac games launch day and date with PC so uh progress is being made and uh it’s a good thing for people that game on the Mac brilliant well on that note this has been your Apple Insider podcast we’ve been recording here on Thursday October 22nd 2015 Mikey where can people find you on the internet Apple Insider and also on Twitter Mikey Campbell 81 Neil where can people find you on the internet well you can read my uh tips that will piss off at Apple Insider and you can follow me on Twitter where you can tell me how much you hate me at this is Neil all right and if Neil publishes any more tips that get 4,000 shares on Facebook we’ll be sure to let you know it all about it next week on the Apple Insider podcast this week’s episode has also been brought to you by realy shares with realy shares in just a few minutes you can invest professionally vetted real estate Investments join thousands of other investors by registering at no cost at real spple inssider browse all the Investments at no cost once you’re qualified invest as little as 1,000 per transaction and diversify your portfolio in minutes by visiting realy appleinsider realy shares has already returned over $10 million to investors to date visit realy appleinsider [Music]

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